Bill Buford — He Owed It to the Men He Lost at Waco | Part 2
In Part 2 of this two-part conversation, retired ATF agent Bill Buford takes listeners back inside the gun room during the February 28, 1993 raid on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas. He walks through the exact sequence of the firefight: the moment a rifle round came up through the floor and hit him, the two AK-47 rounds that followed, and the fellow agent bleeding out beside him from a severed femoral artery. He describes climbing off the roof of the compound with no memory of how he did it, and the ATF medic, Ken Chisholm, who covered him with his own body while starting an IV under continued gunfire.
Buford also shares a story from his time as a Green Beret in Vietnam, a moment when an enemy soldier's rifle failed to fire at point-blank range, and the bullet he has kept ever since as a reminder of how close that day came to ending differently. The conversation turns to the origin of ATF's first Special Response Team, formed in the raid's aftermath, and closes with Buford's own explanation, in his words, of why he chose to go back to a job that had nearly killed him.
This episode honors the four ATF agents killed in the line of duty at Waco: Robert J. Williams, Steven Willis, Todd W. McKeehan, and Conway C. LeBleu.
Heroes Behind the Badge is a production of Citizens Behind the Badge, telling the real stories of the men and women who serve.
Transcript
Bill Buford The first round, they started shooting
Speaker:Bill Buford through the floor, and the first round was a
Speaker:Bill Buford 223 round out of an AR of some sort, I'm guessing.
Speaker:Bill Buford And it came through the floor and hit me right in the butt.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I remember thinking, "Damn, they just shot me in the ass."
Speaker:(Laughter)
Speaker:Bill Erfirth The Branch Davidians fired 11,000
Speaker:Bill Erfirth rounds at all of you, at law enforcement.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And law enforcement fired approximately a thousand rounds.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth I mean, that's a war.
Speaker:Paul Boomer Bill Buford went back to work weeks after being shot four times.
Speaker:Paul Boomer But the full story of that day was only half told.
Speaker:Paul Boomer Here's the rest of it.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth That's a crazy ass war.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And then I just want, I want you to paint
Speaker:Bill Erfirth this picture for everybody, if you would, Bill.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth You were going up a ladder onto an angled roof to get into a
Speaker:Bill Erfirth window, which was the gun room, apparently, right?
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Yes.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And you entered that gun room, and
Speaker:Bill Erfirth a gun battle ensued inside there.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And you just told us that you fired yourself a hundred rounds.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth What kind of weapon were you firing at that moment?
Speaker:Bill Buford I had a SIG Sauer 9mm, and I carried almost 50
Speaker:Bill Buford rounds with me, and I had used all the ammunition.
Speaker:Bill Buford They were shooting through the walls at the end.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Right.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth You're on the roof, into the gun room.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth You're firing 100 rounds.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth You've got a 9mm handgun.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And the slide lock's back, and your
Speaker:Bill Erfirth partner's lying there, and he hands you a magazine.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Now, this is something that I picked up.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And this is from a more of a tactical perspective.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth But he handed you a magazine that
Speaker:Bill Erfirth actually would work in your handgun.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And there's always been a debate in law enforcement and different
Speaker:Bill Erfirth law enforcement agencies that should everyone
Speaker:Bill Erfirth carry the same weapon for that very same reason.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth So that if you run out of ammunition, one of your partners can
Speaker:Bill Erfirth throw you a magazine where if one guy's carrying a Glock and
Speaker:Bill Erfirth another's got a Beretta, that's not going to work.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And so some agencies mandate that, and other agencies don't.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Was that policy with the ATF?
Speaker:Bill Buford It was.
Speaker:Bill Buford ATF issued the SIG Sauer 9mm to everybody.
Speaker:Bill Buford Back when I first came on, you could
Speaker:Bill Buford carry a personal gun if you qualified with it.
Speaker:Bill Buford But
Speaker:Bill Buford then they did away with that policy,
Speaker:Bill Buford and we all had to carry the SIG Sauer 9mm.
Speaker:Bill Buford So there was no doubt.
Speaker:Bill Buford And Glen sort of handed me magazines.
Speaker:Bill Buford I knew what gun he carried.
Speaker:Bill Buford He knew what gun I carried.
Speaker:Bill Buford So
Speaker:Bill Buford it just worked out well.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And you know, law enforcement, like anybody else, they learn.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth They learn from experiences.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth They learn from incidents like yours.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth That that was a prime example of how having the same firearms, you
Speaker:Bill Erfirth could inter-exchange magazines and help to save each other's lives.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth You get shot.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth So I read and you can confirm this.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth You got shot a couple of times by an AK-47.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Four times.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Yeah.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Yeah.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Yeah.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth At least twice with an AK-47 that I know of, right?
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Each time you're getting hit, are you saying, "Oh my God, fuck me."
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Or, "What are you thinking?
Speaker:Bill Erfirth What are you saying?"
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Or is that just enraging you to the
Speaker:Bill Erfirth point, like, "I'm just going to finish this."
Speaker:Bill Erfirth What's the psychology at that moment?
Speaker:Bill Buford Well,
Speaker:Bill Buford it was
Speaker:Bill Buford the first round they started shooting through the floor.
Speaker:Bill Buford And the first round was a .223 round
Speaker:Bill Buford out of an AR of some sort, I'm guessing.
Speaker:Bill Buford And it came through the floor and hit me right in the butt.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I remember thinking, "Damn, they just shot me in the ass."
Speaker:Bill Buford And actually, that one wasn't too bad.
Speaker:Bill Buford But then I took a round in the hip and in the upper thigh.
Speaker:Bill Buford Those were the AK rounds.
Speaker:Bill Buford And they knocked me on my butt.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And on the roof, while you were on the roof?
Speaker:Bill Buford No, I was still in the room.
Speaker:Bill Buford Oh, in the room.
Speaker:Bill Buford And Glen Jordan, one of the other agents in there with me,
Speaker:Bill Buford Glen did the break and rake
Speaker:Bill Buford on the window and then followed me in.
Speaker:Bill Buford He had been shot
Speaker:Bill Buford through the arm and had severed his brachial artery in two places.
Speaker:Bill Buford He was bleeding out on the floor there.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I knew we had to get out of there.
Speaker:Bill Buford That's one reason I kept shooting because I was going to try to get
Speaker:Bill Buford them to quit shooting at us so I could get Glen out of there.
Speaker:Bill Buford And finally, well, what happened?
Speaker:Bill Buford When I ran out of ammunition, Glen's
Speaker:Bill Buford laying there bleeding like a stuck hog.
Speaker:Bill Buford And he started pulling out his magazines and handing them to me
Speaker:Bill Buford because the slide locked back on my SIG.
Speaker:Bill Buford And so I used his three, three
Speaker:Bill Buford magazines of his that he kept giving to me.
Speaker:Bill Buford But
Speaker:Bill Buford and finally, I thought, you know, we got to get out of here.
Speaker:Bill Buford I was trying to get up off the floor.
Speaker:Bill Buford I remember pushing up on a wooden box.
Speaker:Bill Buford And on that in that wooden box was hand grenades.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I thought, man, I hope they don't hit one of these things.
Speaker:Bill Buford And later I thought, why didn't I just pull
Speaker:Bill Buford on the pen and throwing them down the hallway?
Speaker:Bill Buford I didn't think about that at the time.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth You had a lot to think about.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth How the hell did you get out of that
Speaker:Bill Erfirth back out of that window and off the roof?
Speaker:Bill Buford I absolutely have no idea.
Speaker:Bill Buford I remember talking to Glen and I
Speaker:Bill Buford said, Glen, we got to get out of here.
Speaker:Bill Buford I said, can you go?
Speaker:Bill Buford And he said, yes.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I said, let's go.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I was trying to get up off the floor.
Speaker:Bill Buford And the next thing I remember, I was on the roof.
Speaker:Bill Buford I have no
Speaker:Bill Buford memory of getting up and going back out the window.
Speaker:Bill Buford I don't remember anything about it.
Speaker:Bill Buford I just all of a sudden I was on the roof
Speaker:Bill Buford and I thought, damn, I got to get off of here.
Speaker:Bill Buford Because they were shooting us.
Speaker:Bill Buford I had Conway LeBleu, a good friend and
Speaker:Bill Buford another fellow agent, was dead right beside me.
Speaker:Bill Buford He had been killed when we first got on the roof.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I crawled over to the edge of the roof and
Speaker:Bill Buford I was going to do a monkey drop off of the roof.
Speaker:Bill Buford And when I slugged my leg over, I just kept going.
Speaker:Bill Buford Fell down onto some four-wheelers they had parked down below.
Speaker:Bill Buford And a couple of the guys broke my fall, but
Speaker:Bill Buford I broke several ribs when I hit the wheelers.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I thought, oh, damn, they shot me in the chest.
Speaker:Bill Buford This isn't good.
Speaker:Bill Buford And that wasn't the case, but that's what I thought at first.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth What was your most serious injury?
Speaker:Bill Buford An AK ran to my hip.
Speaker:Bill Buford And they left the two bullets in there because they said they were
Speaker:Bill Buford too dangerous to try to take them out.
Speaker:Bill Buford The doctor in the emergency room said he couldn't take a piece of
Speaker:Bill Buford paper and put it between the bullet and my femoral artery.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Wow.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Crazy.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And are there pictures?
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Did they ever come out?
Speaker:Bill Erfirth No, I still carry them.
Speaker:Craig Floyd There's pictures, Bill, of you on the front of a pickup truck, I
Speaker:Craig Floyd believe, as they were trying to get you out of there after you had
Speaker:Craig Floyd gotten off the roof and your colleagues were trying to help you get
Speaker:Craig Floyd the medical attention that you needed.
Speaker:Craig Floyd I'm just wondering, were you conscious at that point?
Speaker:Craig Floyd Do you remember any of that part of the story?
Speaker:Bill Buford I don't remember much of it.
Speaker:Bill Buford I was told later that they only had one ambulance.
Speaker:Bill Buford A couple of guys down at the roadblock, down the road, commandeered
Speaker:Bill Buford an ambulance that was there and drove up there.
Speaker:Bill Buford And it was full.
Speaker:Bill Buford They didn't have any more room.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I was one of the last ones they picked up.
Speaker:Bill Buford And so they carried me over there and
Speaker:Bill Buford just put me on the hood of that car.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I really don't remember being up there at all.
Speaker:Bill Buford One thing I would like to mention, there was another guy on our
Speaker:Bill Buford team, a team medic, Ken Chisholm.
Speaker:Bill Buford When I was laying on the ground and they started shooting at me,
Speaker:Bill Buford when they creased me across the nose, Ken
Speaker:Bill Buford jumped on top of me and covered me up with his body.
Speaker:Bill Buford Later I said, "Ken?"
Speaker:Bill Buford I said, "You know, they were shooting at you too, man."
Speaker:Bill Buford I said, "Why don't you do that?"
Speaker:Bill Buford He said, "I just wasn't going to let them shoot you anymore."
Speaker:Bill Buford Jeez.
Speaker:Bill Buford Crazy.
Speaker:Bill Buford Then he pulled me over to the side and actually I was going into
Speaker:Bill Buford shock and he started an IV on me
Speaker:Bill Buford while we were still getting shot at.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth So he said,
Speaker:Bill Erfirth "You know how to do an IV?"
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Or was he, oh, he was a medic.
Speaker:Bill Buford We didn't have an SRT medic at the time,
Speaker:Bill Buford but he was a paramedic before he came to ATF.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Got it.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Okay.
Speaker:Dennis Collins What I mean, this is what I love
Speaker:Dennis Collins about Heroes Behind the Badge podcast.
Speaker:Dennis Collins We're hearing stories that we would
Speaker:Dennis Collins never hear of heroism at all levels.
Speaker:Dennis Collins All levels.
Speaker:Dennis Collins That's the beauty of this.
Speaker:Dennis Collins I got a question though because in doing my
Speaker:Dennis Collins homework, I heard about there is a little box
Speaker:Dennis Collins that you keep near and dear to yourself
Speaker:Dennis Collins because inside that box is something very special.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Am I getting that story right?
Speaker:Dennis Collins Do you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker:Dennis Collins I'm not sure.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Okay.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Well, I'll tell you the story I heard and
Speaker:Dennis Collins then you can tell me if it's right or not.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Okay.
Speaker:Dennis Collins I heard that inside that box is a bullet fragment of some sort that
Speaker:Dennis Collins was intended for you when you were in the service, I think Vietnam?
Speaker:Dennis Collins Yes.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Yes.
Speaker:Dennis Collins And then somebody put a gun to your head or somewhere point blank,
Speaker:Dennis Collins pulled the trigger and it didn't fire.
Speaker:Dennis Collins And somehow you retrieved that slug and put
Speaker:Dennis Collins it in a box as a remembrance of your good luck.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Does that ring a bell?
Speaker:Dennis Collins No, that's correct.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Okay.
Speaker:Dennis Collins I got that right.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Okay.
Speaker:Bill Buford I was on operation out of Trabong in Vietnam
Speaker:Bill Buford and a VC popped up out of a spider hole about
Speaker:Bill Buford 10 feet in front of me, maybe 20 feet.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I heard the gun click and I dumped a 20
Speaker:Bill Buford round magazine on him and hit him one time, but
Speaker:Bill Buford I was a little excited at the time.
Speaker:Bill Buford But I went over and checked the gun and it was a French M.A.S.
Speaker:Bill Buford 36.
Speaker:Bill Buford I took the bullet out of the chamber
Speaker:Bill Buford and fire and paint had been dented, but I pulled the bullet out of
Speaker:Bill Buford the casing and there was no powder in it.
Speaker:Bill Buford And he had apparently reloaded all of his
Speaker:Bill Buford rounds and forgot to put powder in this one.
Speaker:Bill Buford I fired about another 10 rounds that he had and they all fired.
Speaker:Bill Buford I guess God just didn't want me to go that way.
Speaker:Craig Floyd Wow.
Speaker:Craig Floyd You've got more than nine lives, I think, my friend.
Speaker:Craig Floyd I don't know
Speaker:Dennis Collins that we've ever had a guest here
Speaker:Dennis Collins that had these many close encounters.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Unbelievable.
Speaker:Craig Floyd Yeah, Bill, so this is a good story and
Speaker:Craig Floyd Dennis has opened the door, so let's go there.
Speaker:Craig Floyd I can't believe how you got involved in Vietnam.
Speaker:Craig Floyd All right.
Speaker:Craig Floyd So what I remember, and you can get into the more details, but
Speaker:Craig Floyd you're playing football on a football scholarship at the Kansas.
Speaker:Craig Floyd And one of your teammates is the Hall of Famer, Gale Sayers, right?
Speaker:Craig Floyd So you're having a blast playing football in Kansas.
Speaker:Craig Floyd And as I recall you telling me, you heard something about Vietnam
Speaker:Craig Floyd and something was happening in Vietnam.
Speaker:Craig Floyd And you gave up your football scholarship, a very pleasant
Speaker:Craig Floyd environment there at the University of Kansas, and you decided to
Speaker:Craig Floyd sign up and become part of our military and went over to Vietnam.
Speaker:Craig Floyd Why did you do that?
Speaker:Craig Floyd I still can't understand it fully.
Speaker:Bill Buford I have a good reason why I did that.
Speaker:Bill Buford My family has had
Speaker:Bill Buford people, uncles and aunts, not aunts, uncles and brothers and things
Speaker:Bill Buford that all were a part of World War II in Korea.
Speaker:Bill Buford And they were my heroes growing up.
Speaker:Bill Buford And
Speaker:Bill Buford I just thought to myself, you know, there's a war going on and
Speaker:Bill Buford I'm old enough to go.
Speaker:Bill Buford I need to do it just because my Uncle Bud and my Uncle Johnny,
Speaker:Bill Buford my Uncle Johnny was wounded at the
Speaker:Bill Buford Battle of the Bulge in World War II.
Speaker:Bill Buford And my Uncle Bud was
Speaker:Bill Buford an artillery unit in Korea and a gun kicked back and ruined his
Speaker:Bill Buford knee for him when it kicked back one time.
Speaker:Bill Buford Those guys were just always my heroes
Speaker:Bill Buford and I wanted to try to live up to them.
Speaker:Bill Buford And at that time, they were just starting or getting some
Speaker:Bill Buford information out about the Green Berets.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I thought, you know, I'm gonna go near Army and I'm gonna
Speaker:Bill Buford become a Green Beret and go to Vietnam.
Speaker:Bill Buford And that's what I did.
Speaker:Bill Buford It was a stupid decision.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth I don't know about that.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth But then go on from what Craig just asked you to the next chapter
Speaker:Bill Erfirth of your life and tell the story how you ran into some ATF agents
Speaker:Bill Erfirth and you didn't even know what ATF was.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth You asked them, tell that story.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And then how you became an ATF agent yourself.
Speaker:Bill Buford Yeah, I was living in Lawrence, Kansas.
Speaker:Bill Buford After I got out of the Army, I went back to Kansas to get a degree.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I was working for a private
Speaker:Bill Buford business there, a credit bureau actually.
Speaker:Bill Buford And
Speaker:Bill Buford there were still a lot of Vietnam War protesters.
Speaker:Bill Buford And on one particular night there, they had put bombs in seven
Speaker:Bill Buford different buildings in downtown Lawrence and had tried to burn the
Speaker:Bill Buford Student Union down at the University of Kansas.
Speaker:Bill Buford Well, one of the buildings that they
Speaker:Bill Buford bombed was the building I was working out of.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I went out there and these two
Speaker:Bill Buford guys were working the crime scene.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I said, you guys FBI agents?
Speaker:Bill Buford They said, no, we work for a living.
Speaker:Bill Buford I said, well, what does that mean?
Speaker:Bill Buford And
Speaker:Bill Buford they said,
Speaker:Bill Buford we're ATF agents.
Speaker:Bill Buford I said, what's ATF?
Speaker:Bill Buford I didn't have a clue.
Speaker:Bill Buford They said, alcohol, tobacco, and firearms.
Speaker:Bill Buford I says, what does that mean?
Speaker:Bill Buford And they said, we work guns, whiskey, and explosives.
Speaker:Bill Buford I said, hell, I can do that. 30 days later, I was working for ATF.
Speaker:Dennis Collins I got all that, huh?
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And you brought something up that's kind of
Speaker:Bill Erfirth an interesting dynamic in law enforcement.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth You know, everybody thinks oftentimes law enforcement is one big
Speaker:Bill Erfirth happy family, but there's always been, you know, a degree of
Speaker:Bill Erfirth competitiveness, maybe even taking it further beyond that.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth But, you know, you said you just made the joke
Speaker:Bill Erfirth about being a real working man versus FBI and ATF.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And I have had a very good friend that worked for the DEA.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth And then I was detached to some federal task force as well.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth So I know the, the competitive
Speaker:Bill Erfirth competitiveness between the federal agencies.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth My point is here though, is, you know, ATF started this whole thing
Speaker:Bill Erfirth with David Koresh and the cult there, the
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Branch Davidians, but then FBI took it over.
Speaker:Bill Erfirth How did you and the ATF feel about the FBI doing that?
Speaker:Bill Buford Actually, ATF asked the FBI to come in and take over because we
Speaker:Bill Buford felt like we had already had enough bad publicity.
Speaker:Bill Buford And if there was another shootout and we killed a bunch of
Speaker:Bill Buford Davidians, it'd be like we were just seeking revenge.
Speaker:Bill Buford So the decision was made, and I believe it was the correct one to
Speaker:Bill Buford actually FBI to come in and take over
Speaker:Bill Buford the perimeter and do the negotiations.
Speaker:Bill Buford At that time, ATF had no trained negotiators.
Speaker:Bill Buford And although I have,
Speaker:Bill Buford regardless of what I said a minute ago about the FBI, I can't say
Speaker:Bill Buford anything bad about what the FBI did at Waco.
Speaker:Bill Buford They worked their butts off and tried
Speaker:Bill Buford to get everybody out of there alive.
Speaker:Bill Buford And what happened eventually on the 19th was not their fault.
Speaker:Bill Buford Yeah, that's good to know.
Speaker:Craig Floyd Well, a couple of final questions as we near close here.
Speaker:Craig Floyd Why did you go back to ATF?
Speaker:Craig Floyd I mean, you mentioned earlier you were in the shop four times
Speaker:Craig Floyd at Waco.
Speaker:Craig Floyd You were in the hospital for six weeks.
Speaker:Craig Floyd You nearly died.
Speaker:Craig Floyd And yet after you got out of the hospital,
Speaker:Craig Floyd after you rehabbed, you went back to ATF.
Speaker:Craig Floyd And it was only because of a mandatory
Speaker:Craig Floyd retirement age that you had to leave when you did.
Speaker:Craig Floyd Why did you go back?
Speaker:Bill Buford I just I loved the agency and I loved the people I've worked with.
Speaker:Bill Buford I owed it to the guys that were killed.
Speaker:Craig Floyd I
Speaker:Craig Floyd can't ask for more than that.
Speaker:Craig Floyd Thinking about Steve Willis, Conway LeBleu, Todd McKeehan, Rob
Speaker:Craig Floyd Williams, and any special remembrances,
Speaker:Craig Floyd descriptions of them that you'd like to share with us?
Speaker:Craig Floyd Because I love to tell the stories of fallen heroes.
Speaker:Craig Floyd And I do it every week in a podcast we do
Speaker:Craig Floyd called Heroes What would you say about each of them?
Speaker:Craig Floyd I don't know how close you were.
Speaker:Craig Floyd I know a couple of them were close friends.
Speaker:Craig Floyd I don't know if all four were, but any
Speaker:Craig Floyd special memories you'd like to share?
Speaker:Bill Buford Well, Steve Willis was out of Houston.
Speaker:Bill Buford I didn't really know him.
Speaker:Bill Buford I had met him, but that was it.
Speaker:Bill Buford But Conway and Todd McKeehan were out of New Orleans office also.
Speaker:Bill Buford Conway was actually stationed in Baton Rouge.
Speaker:Bill Buford But Conway and I had worked
Speaker:Bill Buford together on the SRT for about three years.
Speaker:Bill Buford And
Speaker:Bill Buford I don't know if I'll tell this, but we after we'd get through
Speaker:Bill Buford training, we sometimes would imbibe a little bit.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I remember going to a bar one night and they were doing shots
Speaker:Bill Buford at tequila where you laid on your back
Speaker:Bill Buford and they just pour a shot in your mouth.
Speaker:Bill Buford And
Speaker:Bill Buford how we got home that night, but he was a great guy, very outgoing,
Speaker:Bill Buford had a great family.
Speaker:Bill Buford And Rob Williams was out of my Little Rock office.
Speaker:Bill Buford I actually swore him in on the job.
Speaker:Bill Buford Usually a federal judge does it.
Speaker:Bill Buford And I said, "Bro, I'll get a federal judge to swear you in."
Speaker:Bill Buford And he said, "No, I want you to swear me in."
Speaker:Bill Erfirth Okay.
Speaker:Bill Buford So I swear him in.
Speaker:Bill Buford And
Speaker:Bill Buford he was a hard worker.
Speaker:Bill Buford This was a kid that
Speaker:Bill Buford if we got called out on the weekend, we always
Speaker:Bill Buford had one person on duty agent for the weekend.
Speaker:Bill Buford And if something came up, they would respond to it, or if they
Speaker:Bill Buford needed more people than they'd call me and I'd get more people out.
Speaker:Bill Buford But I can remember Rob coming into the office one day and he said,
Speaker:Bill Buford "Hey, I hear you all got called out on Saturday."
Speaker:Bill Buford And I said, "Yeah."
Speaker:Bill Buford We went out and I forget what it was we were doing.
Speaker:Bill Buford He says, "Well, damn, why didn't you call me?"
Speaker:Bill Buford He says, "I wasn't doing anything."
Speaker:Bill Buford He said, "I'll go.
Speaker:Bill Buford I'll go."
Speaker:Bill Buford He volunteered for everything.
Speaker:Bill Buford We started an explosives handler program.
Speaker:Bill Buford He was an explosives handler when we started
Speaker:Bill Buford the SRTs or back then the entry control team.
Speaker:Bill Buford He was the first one to volunteer for that.
Speaker:Bill Buford And the kid just worked 24-7 whenever he could and such a good guy.
Speaker:Bill Buford In fact, we still do a golf tournament in his honor called the Rob
Speaker:Bill Buford Williams Memorial Golf Tournament. 30 some
Speaker:Bill Buford years later, we've done it every year since 1993.
Speaker:Bill Buford But Rob was involved with Special
Speaker:Bill Buford Olympics, the law enforcement torch run.
Speaker:Bill Buford And he and I ran many a mile through Arkansas together.
Speaker:Bill Buford In fact, earlier he mentioned the monument we were standing in
Speaker:Bill Buford front of where they took a picture of Rob and I.
Speaker:Bill Buford And that was part of the torch run.
Speaker:Bill Buford We were running the torch through Arkansas at that time.
Speaker:Bill Buford But
Speaker:Bill Buford the golf tournament we...half of the
Speaker:Bill Buford money we raise goes to Special Olympics.
Speaker:Bill Buford The other half goes to a scholarship in Rob's name at the
Speaker:Bill Buford University of Arkansas in Little Rock.
Speaker:Bill Buford He was working on his master's degree in
Speaker:Bill Buford criminal justice at the time he was killed.
Speaker:Bill Buford Just the kind of kid you would want around you all the time because
Speaker:Bill Buford he was just so positive about everything.
Speaker:Bill Buford And it just
Speaker:Bill Buford tore my heart out when I saw him get shot.
Speaker:Bill Buford He was about five feet from me when he had happened.
Speaker:Dennis Collins I can't even imagine.
Speaker:Craig Floyd Here's something.
Speaker:Craig Floyd I appreciate those remembrances.
Speaker:Craig Floyd That's so special to bring that out so
Speaker:Craig Floyd people get to know these fallen heroes.
Speaker:Dennis Collins What can we say to you, Bill, other than a million thank yous for
Speaker:Dennis Collins sharing your story on Heroes Behind the Badge?
Speaker:Dennis Collins These are the stories, as I said
Speaker:Dennis Collins earlier, these are the ones that we don't know.
Speaker:Dennis Collins These are the ones that weren't publicized.
Speaker:Dennis Collins These are the ones the American public needs
Speaker:Dennis Collins to know your story and the ones just like it.
Speaker:Dennis Collins These are the ones that need to be told and remembered.
Speaker:Dennis Collins I'm really kind of shaken by your phrase,
Speaker:Dennis Collins "You owed it to the guys who were killed."
Speaker:Dennis Collins That is one of the most powerful things that
Speaker:Dennis Collins I think has ever been said on this podcast.
Speaker:Dennis Collins And remembering them the way you have,
Speaker:Dennis Collins supporting them by staying in the fight.
Speaker:Dennis Collins I don't know.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Isn't that the definition of a hero?
Speaker:Dennis Collins We think it is.
Speaker:Dennis Collins And we thank you on behalf of our nation and all of our fellow
Speaker:Dennis Collins Americans for your lifetime of service.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Not just ATF, but military, everything that
Speaker:Dennis Collins you did, your whole life was about service.
Speaker:Dennis Collins And it's very touching that you mentioned the family connection.
Speaker:Dennis Collins This was a legacy.
Speaker:Dennis Collins This was something that you were destined to do.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Thank God for that.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Thank God for your family and for you.
Speaker:Dennis Collins And let's hope that we have a lot more
Speaker:Dennis Collins people like you who see this as their legacy.
Speaker:Dennis Collins It's a little harder right now to police than it was in the past.
Speaker:Dennis Collins It's never been easy, but right now
Speaker:Dennis Collins there's a lot of, you know what, floating around.
Speaker:Dennis Collins And I will point to this interview with you if anybody doubts
Speaker:Dennis Collins going into a life of service in law enforcement.
Speaker:Dennis Collins So thank you for sharing it.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Very powerful, very impactful, and the
Speaker:Dennis Collins public needs to hear this, and now they will.
Speaker:Dennis Collins So thank you.
Speaker:Bill Buford Thank you.
Speaker:Bill Buford I appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Thank you.
Speaker:Dennis Collins If you liked anything that Mr.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Bill Buford had to say, and if you didn't, you're not alive.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Okay?
Speaker:Dennis Collins Please subscribe, like, and follow our podcast.
Speaker:Dennis Collins This podcast is brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge.
Speaker:Dennis Collins Citizens Behind the Badge is the leading organization in support of
Speaker:Dennis Collins the men and women of law enforcement,
Speaker:Dennis Collins citizensbehindthebadge.org.
Speaker:Dennis Collins You can find out all about us.
Speaker:Dennis Collins You can find out how to get involved and join the hundreds and
Speaker:Dennis Collins hundreds of thousands of Americans who have signed pledges of
Speaker:Dennis Collins support, who have made donations to help in our
Speaker:Dennis Collins efforts to advocate on behalf of law enforcement.
Speaker:Dennis Collins We would appreciate if you follow us, make comments if you heard
Speaker:Dennis Collins something you liked or something you didn't like today.
Speaker:Dennis Collins We will see you again on the next
Speaker:Dennis Collins episode of Heroes Behind the Badge.
