Episode 20

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Published on:

13th Aug 2025

Police Officer Becomes FBI Leader: 36 Years Behind the Badge

From beat cop to FBI leadership - Louis Quijas made history as the first police officer to become FBI Assistant Director without coming up through federal ranks. This unprecedented 36-year law enforcement career spanning Kansas City Police Department, High Point Police Chief, and FBI leadership reveals how one officer changed federal law enforcement forever.

After 9/11, FBI Director Mueller personally selected Quijas to revolutionize FBI-local police relations. Working four doors down from the Director, he transformed the Bureau from a reactive agency to a prevention-focused force, building partnerships with 800,000 local officers nationwide. His innovative approaches, including the nationally-adopted "High Point Initiative," proved that community-driven policing works better than federal mandates.

Transcript
Dennis Collins:

Hey, a warm Heroes Behind the Badge welcome to Louis Quijas.

Dennis Collins:

He is a member of the Citizens Behind the Badge Law Enforcement Advisory Council.

Dennis Collins:

Louis, welcome to our podcast.

Dennis Collins:

Good to have you as a guest.

Loiue Quijas:

thank you for having me.

Loiue Quijas:

I'm looking forward to it.

Dennis Collins:

You are a frequent op-ed contributor, to Citizens Behind the

Dennis Collins:

Badge, and I know you've had some very good, opinions expressed, and I know

Dennis Collins:

my colleagues, Craig Floyd and Billy Erfurth wanna talk to you about that.

Dennis Collins:

So why don't we get right into it?

Dennis Collins:

Let Craig, I know you know Louis A long time and, why don't you start us off?

Craig Floyd:

I just think everybody needs to know that, our guest, Louis Quijas, is,

Craig Floyd:

quite, the law enforcement professional 36 years, having served in law enforcement

Craig Floyd:

at the state, local, and federal level.

Craig Floyd:

there aren't too many law enforcement leaders in this country that can say that.

Craig Floyd:

and he, brings, quite a, interesting and a very important perspective,

Craig Floyd:

to what's going on in the world today in law enforcement.

Craig Floyd:

But Louis, I wanna start with.

Craig Floyd:

last, I guess it was right before the election, maybe in October of last

Craig Floyd:

year, you wrote an op-ed on our behalf for Citizens Behind the Badge, and

Craig Floyd:

you basically said that the number one issue facing the American electorate

Craig Floyd:

in November was public safety.

Craig Floyd:

That was the issue that really you felt was the most important.

Craig Floyd:

And I'm just interested, having now here we are, what, eight months out from that

Craig Floyd:

election, do you still feel that way?

Craig Floyd:

And, have we progressed in, a positive direction as a result of that election?

Loiue Quijas:

No, I still believe that with all my heart.

Loiue Quijas:

I still think though, the public safety piece of it is

Loiue Quijas:

probably the most important.

Loiue Quijas:

And even the, the general election for the president and now these midterms

Loiue Quijas:

that are coming up even at the local level, we've seen now how important

Loiue Quijas:

these local elections are when you, there are, elected local das and the local

Loiue Quijas:

sheriffs and the appointment of chiefs.

Loiue Quijas:

So I think it's more important than, ever.

Loiue Quijas:

And what I hope we, and I know what we're trying to do for citizen behind the badge

Loiue Quijas:

is educate people how important it's for them to get involved and be educated on,

Loiue Quijas:

what is going on in their communities as it relates to public safety.

Loiue Quijas:

no, I still believe wholeheartedly, I don't see any lead up, if you will,

Loiue Quijas:

in, in that priority where that, I think public safety should always

Loiue Quijas:

be a front, burner issue, for us.

Bill Erfurth:

Louis.

Craig Floyd:

Yeah, go ahead, Bill.

Bill Erfurth:

So Louis, let's just jump right into this, this op-ed,

Bill Erfurth:

and it's a very interesting thing, and it was interesting for me because

Bill Erfurth:

I had never heard of this before.

Bill Erfurth:

N never heard anybody talk about how this went on, within law

Bill Erfurth:

enforcement or in police work.

Bill Erfurth:

But, so you were involved in this, you talked about this in your op-ed.

Bill Erfurth:

the St. Louis, Kansas City, Missouri, and how those police agencies are regulated by

Bill Erfurth:

the state rather than on the local level.

Bill Erfurth:

Never heard of that before.

Bill Erfurth:

Very pretty, interesting.

Bill Erfurth:

And I'm, I would imagine a lot of people haven't heard about

Bill Erfurth:

it, so let us know about that.

Loiue Quijas:

in Kansas City's case was nine around 1930 because of the

Loiue Quijas:

corruption and everything that was going on in the, in Kansas City.

Loiue Quijas:

They removed, basically fired almost everybody.

Loiue Quijas:

And, put the police department under state control.

Loiue Quijas:

The governor, whoever the governor is, appoints four people from the community.

Loiue Quijas:

most of the time.

Loiue Quijas:

One's north of the city, south, east and west.

Loiue Quijas:

So you have a diverse group.

Loiue Quijas:

And the mayor only plays an EXOFFICIO member is only an

Loiue Quijas:

Exofficio member of the board.

Loiue Quijas:

Got one vote.

Loiue Quijas:

So the mayor, like in most cities, can get rid of the fire or the police chief.

Loiue Quijas:

I, that's not the case in Kansas City, nor was it in St. Louis.

Loiue Quijas:

St. Louis was pulled out and they wanted to go on their own,

Loiue Quijas:

go back under city control.

Loiue Quijas:

And as you can see how that's turned out over the few, over the

Loiue Quijas:

last, I guess about 10 years or so.

Loiue Quijas:

They just recently, I believe in March, came back under state control

Loiue Quijas:

because it's so bad in St. Louis.

Loiue Quijas:

But, one of the things I tell people nine times outta 10, I couldn't

Loiue Quijas:

even tell you who the city manager was in Kansas City because we never

Loiue Quijas:

felt that pressure from City Hall.

Loiue Quijas:

We knew we had a board of police commissioners, very diverse.

Loiue Quijas:

all of them brought d different agendas, sometimes competing

Loiue Quijas:

agendas, which made it interesting.

Loiue Quijas:

Board meetings pretty interesting.

Loiue Quijas:

But at the end of the day, just because a group of people would come down to

Loiue Quijas:

police headquarters, demand that the chief be fired, which they did in, right

Loiue Quijas:

after the George Floyd incident and the.

Loiue Quijas:

Excuse me.

Loiue Quijas:

The rioting and the protesting, the chief at that time in Kansas City,

Loiue Quijas:

they wanted to get rid of him and it didn't happen because of the structure.

Loiue Quijas:

And what around the country today was such poor political

Loiue Quijas:

leadership, Chicago, Seattle, New York, la you could go on and on.

Loiue Quijas:

and a lot of those chiefs and Craig and I, and many of some of these,

Loiue Quijas:

they're very good chiefs and some of the stuff I see 'em doing, you think

Loiue Quijas:

they normally would not do that.

Loiue Quijas:

That's not them.

Loiue Quijas:

And it's because they come under that city control.

Loiue Quijas:

But I think if they were under state control, it might be, would be different.

Bill Erfurth:

So the goal of that ultimately is to take the,

Bill Erfurth:

local politics out and have a more neutral state oversight over

Bill Erfurth:

the police department itself.

Bill Erfurth:

Now was it just the police department or was it the fire

Bill Erfurth:

department or just, police only?

Loiue Quijas:

Just police.

Loiue Quijas:

Just law enforcement.

Loiue Quijas:

And, what it does, it gives you some consistency and policy and focus and

Loiue Quijas:

priorities rather than every four years, and at when I was there, we didn't have

Loiue Quijas:

unions, so we didn't get into all of that.

Loiue Quijas:

Our focus was on public safety.

Bill Erfurth:

Because,

Loiue Quijas:

We, that was so good.

Bill Erfurth:

We, we, see this time after time where police chiefs are fired,

Bill Erfurth:

left, and sideways because they're not, they're not listening to the city manager

Bill Erfurth:

or the mayor or the council or whatever, or they're not of the same political

Bill Erfurth:

persuasion of the, as the new person that just locally got elected there.

Bill Erfurth:

Yep.

Bill Erfurth:

And in contrary to the sheriffs, where if you're an elected sheriff, you're the man,

Bill Erfurth:

you make the choices, you can't be fired.

Bill Erfurth:

You might not be reelected.

Bill Erfurth:

But, way different situation.

Loiue Quijas:

Yeah, In, the sheriffs, they clear they, they carry a

Loiue Quijas:

lot of political power locally.

Loiue Quijas:

they're out there, they're, they're still a contact sport.

Loiue Quijas:

you go out, you're shaking hands, you're kissing babies, you're doing, and

Loiue Quijas:

nobody does it better than the sheriffs.

Loiue Quijas:

A good sheriff's always, out there.

Loiue Quijas:

And, I tell you what, after I started interacting more with them, through my

Loiue Quijas:

work with the FBI, let me tell you what I newfound respect for that group of people.

Loiue Quijas:

And now there's a big push to bring those sheriffs under local control.

Loiue Quijas:

I don't know if you've seen that, like up in Washington state, and I think

Loiue Quijas:

it's King County actually up in, in, right outside of Seattle there, part

Loiue Quijas:

of Seattle, they're trying to bring that sheriff's office under city

Loiue Quijas:

control because they do have power.

Loiue Quijas:

And they can say, Hey, this isn't right.

Loiue Quijas:

This doesn't make con, this doesn't make sense.

Loiue Quijas:

we are gonna cooperate with ice.

Loiue Quijas:

We are going to help enforce immigration laws and that's the been the rub.

Craig Floyd:

Do you see this as a partisan issue at all?

Craig Floyd:

in Missouri you have a Republican governor and, I think there was probably charges

Craig Floyd:

of, partisanship that was, responsible for the state wanting to take over St.

Craig Floyd:

Louis, even though I think that the facts tell you that a St. Louis wasn't

Craig Floyd:

doing a very good job of running, their city and preventing crime.

Craig Floyd:

one of the things you made a, great point in your op-ed I thought

Craig Floyd:

was that, businesses and citizens were leaving St. Louis in droves.

Craig Floyd:

Because of the public safety issue.

Craig Floyd:

They just didn't feel safe there.

Craig Floyd:

Yeah.

Craig Floyd:

And as a result, they left the city.

Craig Floyd:

And the Republican governor, looks at that and he says, and the legislature,

Craig Floyd:

of course, they had to approve this.

Craig Floyd:

they said, wait a minute, we can do a better job if the state, controls

Craig Floyd:

the St. Louis Police Department.

Craig Floyd:

And, obviously you made the point, Kansas City has been under state control for

Craig Floyd:

so long, but, I'm interested in why maybe other departments within Missouri

Craig Floyd:

haven't been under state control.

Craig Floyd:

And do you view this as a Republican versus Democrat, issue?

Loiue Quijas:

I do now more than ever.

Loiue Quijas:

fact, when I was a cop, again, we couldn't be involved in political activities.

Loiue Quijas:

You couldn't write a check.

Loiue Quijas:

we had guys that would get terminated if they got caught, Donating

Loiue Quijas:

to some politician's campaign.

Loiue Quijas:

So we were very, distant from, the political, any kind of political movement.

Loiue Quijas:

So yeah, I, but I see it now that way.

Loiue Quijas:

Look at St I go back to St. Louis.

Loiue Quijas:

They've got rid of the DA state, came in and got rid of her.

Loiue Quijas:

They're trying to get rid of the sheriff now.

Loiue Quijas:

St. Louis County Sheriff.

Loiue Quijas:

Yeah, because of all the, just the crime.

Loiue Quijas:

They're like, what I, believe right now they're number one or number two,

Loiue Quijas:

most violent cities in the country.

Loiue Quijas:

And, they're so disorganized.

Loiue Quijas:

There's a lot of chaos.

Loiue Quijas:

And not that Kansas City, by any chance is a shining star.

Loiue Quijas:

They've got their issues, but we've never had the issues that St. Louis had with

Loiue Quijas:

after they went back under, city control.

Loiue Quijas:

And, I ran internal affairs for Kansas City for a number of years.

Loiue Quijas:

we had our sheriffs up, but we had no.

Loiue Quijas:

Better anywhere, stretch of corruption and some of the things that you see

Loiue Quijas:

some of these major cities have.

Loiue Quijas:

and I think a lot of it was due because we were under state control.

Loiue Quijas:

we weren't under that city.

Loiue Quijas:

the mayor didn't call over, the city manager, didn't call over, never

Loiue Quijas:

worried about those kind of issues.

Loiue Quijas:

So yeah, I think, I believe that, there is that piece now where

Loiue Quijas:

that's a Democrat and Republican and you've got a very progressive

Loiue Quijas:

mayor in Kansas City right now who's.

Loiue Quijas:

Public safety is not a priority for him.

Dennis Collins:

That's, good.

Dennis Collins:

Good.

Dennis Collins:

A good policy, isn't it?

Dennis Collins:

Yes.

Dennis Collins:

I'm interested in your amazing career.

Dennis Collins:

You started in Kansas City right?

Dennis Collins:

In Kansas City PD.

Loiue Quijas:

Actually 50, 53 years.

Loiue Quijas:

53 years in, 10 days ago.

Loiue Quijas:

I showed up at the police Academy 53 years and 10 days ago.

Loiue Quijas:

To the day.

Loiue Quijas:

To the day, yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

I, would, I probably on my lunch break right about now, wondering what

Loiue Quijas:

in the hell am I done with myself?

Loiue Quijas:

But yeah, I was, we just had an anniversary 53 years and, 10 days ago.

Dennis Collins:

And you, were promoted as high as major, I believe, in Kansas City.

Dennis Collins:

You left as a major and you, then you became a police chief, right?

Dennis Collins:

yep.

Dennis Collins:

In High Point, North Carolina.

Dennis Collins:

That was, had to be a little cultural shift from Kansas City over to High Point.

Dennis Collins:

I'd say it was the best move I ever made.

Dennis Collins:

It really was great town.

Dennis Collins:

But the point, the, there's one move that you made after High

Dennis Collins:

Point where you became the first.

Dennis Collins:

assistant director of the FBI who had not come up through the system, obviously you

Dennis Collins:

had come up through local law enforcement.

Dennis Collins:

Tell us about, your promo, your, promotion to that position, how it

Dennis Collins:

happened and most important what you did, because I think it's very critical.

Dennis Collins:

It's very similar to what you were just talking about, relationships with

Dennis Collins:

some of the local and state people.

Loiue Quijas:

Yep.

Loiue Quijas:

I mean it was really very simple.

Loiue Quijas:

We went to ca, I went from Kansas City to St. Louis and we had

Loiue Quijas:

already been, we had been one of the first agencies that got into the

Loiue Quijas:

community policing piece years ago.

Loiue Quijas:

When I first came on, they were already talking about 53 years ago

Loiue Quijas:

and 10 days, 10 days, they were talking about community policing.

Loiue Quijas:

'cause I remember having it in the academy.

Loiue Quijas:

So when we went there, high Point was having some of the same issues

Loiue Quijas:

that, the big cities were having, but obviously on a smaller scale.

Loiue Quijas:

And we just started implementing, the High Point initiative and

Loiue Quijas:

which is still there today.

Loiue Quijas:

After all these years after I, I've been gone and, and was, picked up by a number

Loiue Quijas:

of police departments around the country.

Loiue Quijas:

We had more police departments visiting High Point, because

Loiue Quijas:

Jan Reno took an interest in it.

Loiue Quijas:

She had heard about us.

Loiue Quijas:

Yes.

Loiue Quijas:

I wasn't getting any, and I always joke with people, I said,

Loiue Quijas:

I never took any federal money.

Loiue Quijas:

It wasn't because I didn't want it, but I wasn't smart enough to handle it.

Loiue Quijas:

So I thought, I'm not gonna get myself in trouble and get

Loiue Quijas:

a million dollar grant to do.

Loiue Quijas:

'cause we, they, were offering us money and, I'm trying to

Loiue Quijas:

think of the lady's name.

Loiue Quijas:

I'll think of her, Lori Robinson, remember Lori Robinson?

Loiue Quijas:

Sure.

Loiue Quijas:

Yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

And she was with DOJ at the time and she took a interest in what we were doing.

Loiue Quijas:

So to make a long story short, I got invited myself and the US attorney

Loiue Quijas:

got invited out to Arizona to share with the other US attorneys there, how

Loiue Quijas:

we were working together to address violent crime, bringing all these

Loiue Quijas:

federal resources in, developing these partnerships, but also having the,

Loiue Quijas:

initiative driven by our local citizens.

Loiue Quijas:

And then that crowd happened to be a guy named Bob Moeller, who was

Loiue Quijas:

a US attorney in San Francisco.

Loiue Quijas:

So now you go up and speed it up a little bit.

Loiue Quijas:

He's seven days into his job as the new FBI director.

Loiue Quijas:

And nine 11 happens.

Loiue Quijas:

And, director Muller being the smart guy, he is realized that at that time there was

Loiue Quijas:

about 13,000 gun toting agents scattered over 700 locations around the world.

Loiue Quijas:

He knew they weren't going to be able.

Loiue Quijas:

To be the prevention piece of that strategy to keep our country safe.

Loiue Quijas:

It's gonna be those 800,000 cops out there, 24 7 in the back alleys out on

Loiue Quijas:

the street, having the contact that was gonna prevent the next terrorist attack.

Loiue Quijas:

And he realized that there wasn't that positive connection between the

Loiue Quijas:

FBI and state local law enforcement.

Loiue Quijas:

It worked at the local level.

Loiue Quijas:

A lot of great sacs out there that were, making good contact, had great

Loiue Quijas:

relationships, but they rotated out and then it would all start over again and.

Bill Erfurth:

Louis, that was your first, you were the first guy doing

Bill Erfurth:

that, and, now you're with the FBI.

Bill Erfurth:

So tell us, what was your greatest achievement, you think, when you were

Bill Erfurth:

there, and how did you liaise on that?

Loiue Quijas:

it was fairly.

Loiue Quijas:

I wanna say easy because I had great partners like Floyd Craig.

Loiue Quijas:

we had people that knew what was going on, knew that there was a

Loiue Quijas:

need for it, gave me an opportunity.

Loiue Quijas:

I can't tell you how many times Craig had me up talking to the

Loiue Quijas:

groups that he had coming, invited me to many of the functions.

Loiue Quijas:

People didn't even know there was an office of law enforcement coordination.

Loiue Quijas:

what we did is I just, my hardest challenge at the beginning, to

Loiue Quijas:

be honest with you, bill, was to convince the SACI was not there to get

Loiue Quijas:

between them and the relationships.

Loiue Quijas:

I was there to get there, to enhance the relationships.

Loiue Quijas:

I could go right to the director.

Loiue Quijas:

I was on the seventh floor, about four offices down from the director.

Loiue Quijas:

He passed my office every morning.

Loiue Quijas:

I traveled around the world with him and he always ask, how's it going, Louie?

Loiue Quijas:

That was his favorite line.

Loiue Quijas:

How's it going?

Loiue Quijas:

And I would tell him, Hey, I'm hearing this.

Loiue Quijas:

Or we'd go to ICP or we'd go up to do Craig's function every year.

Loiue Quijas:

And I'd tell, Hey, you're gonna to hear this.

Loiue Quijas:

So the issue was, to convince those sacs, I am here.

Loiue Quijas:

To help you in the relationships.

Loiue Quijas:

I don't wanna get between the relationships and because I had

Loiue Quijas:

been a police chief, I had been a member of all these associations.

Loiue Quijas:

I was pretty well known in the law enforcement community.

Loiue Quijas:

But, I never got in front of those relationships.

Loiue Quijas:

And I think that was what the, Me part of our success for the office, and

Loiue Quijas:

they knew I had access to the director.

Loiue Quijas:

They always saw me with the director in his favorite line.

Loiue Quijas:

A lot of times if somebody would mention something at a

Loiue Quijas:

conference, he'd say, talk to Louis.

Loiue Quijas:

He's my guy.

Loiue Quijas:

So they knew I was the guy that was gonna make it happen.

Dennis Collins:

And for those who might not, be familiar, with

Dennis Collins:

the term SAC, that's critical to understand what that means.

Dennis Collins:

So why don't you explain what an SAC is?

Loiue Quijas:

This, SAC is a special agent in charge.

Loiue Quijas:

They run like the Dallas office, the Richmond office,

Loiue Quijas:

the Washington Field Office.

Loiue Quijas:

So those are the guys, that's their, they're like the director of that.

Loiue Quijas:

Particular area.

Loiue Quijas:

New York has an assistant director over that office, so I

Loiue Quijas:

actually have to deal with them.

Loiue Quijas:

Boy, if you come in there, you do something without their approval,

Loiue Quijas:

they get a little riff, so things

Craig Floyd:

will roll.

Craig Floyd:

Yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

I needed those relationships.

Craig Floyd:

Yeah.

Craig Floyd:

Yeah.

Craig Floyd:

You were, the perfect guy for the job because of your background.

Craig Floyd:

you grew up, 20 some years in Kansas City, A local department,

Craig Floyd:

rose to the rank of major.

Craig Floyd:

Then you moved to High Point where you become a police chief,

Craig Floyd:

and then you go to the FBI.

Craig Floyd:

Now, I have to ask you this question because.

Craig Floyd:

you've alluded to it, the FBI has had a reputation probably forever

Craig Floyd:

that they don't, play well with state and local law enforcement.

Craig Floyd:

One of the, I think the myths, at least, and you can correct me if

Craig Floyd:

it's wrong, is that the FBI tends to come into a big crime and take over

Craig Floyd:

and get all the glory and all the credit because that's the way j Edgar

Craig Floyd:

Hoover liked to do it in the old days.

Craig Floyd:

And yeah, to some extent that narrative has remained true.

Craig Floyd:

when you got there, how did you feel about it?

Craig Floyd:

Did you feel that the FBI really was negligent in working well with

Craig Floyd:

state and local law enforcement, or was that a more of a myth?

Loiue Quijas:

I grew up with that.

Loiue Quijas:

I grew up with that mindset.

Loiue Quijas:

When I was in Kansas City, I was never really involved with the FBI that much.

Loiue Quijas:

I was more of a field operational kind of guy.

Loiue Quijas:

Wasn't on many of the big task forces.

Loiue Quijas:

So that wasn't my thing.

Loiue Quijas:

But when I became police chief and we started, introducing the High

Loiue Quijas:

Point initiative, Chris Wecker, who was my SAC out of Charlotte and

Loiue Quijas:

I became very close as matter of fact, he was very instrumental in

Loiue Quijas:

me end up getting the job with the bureau because of our relationship.

Loiue Quijas:

But yeah, I mean it was after I got into the FBI, I realized, there's

Loiue Quijas:

always two sides of that story.

Loiue Quijas:

And, but I think the, what helped me Craig, more than anything is that the

Loiue Quijas:

director had been a local prosecutor in d in DC and he had worked homicide

Loiue Quijas:

cases with local detectives and obviously, the DC area better than

Loiue Quijas:

probably anybody on this broadcast.

Loiue Quijas:

that US attorney, the, so there was a lot of context.

Loiue Quijas:

So he knew.

Loiue Quijas:

There was a lot of guys saying, oh director, you don't need to

Loiue Quijas:

bring a guy in from the outside.

Loiue Quijas:

We have these great relationships.

Loiue Quijas:

But he had sat down with the local cops out in San Francisco.

Loiue Quijas:

He had done it in DC so he knew they weren't perfect.

Loiue Quijas:

I don't think there were as bad as people were making him out to be.

Loiue Quijas:

A lot of it was just redefining those lanes and emphasizing the importance

Loiue Quijas:

that state and local was gonna play in the, future of the FB i's success of

Loiue Quijas:

preventing another terrorist attack.

Loiue Quijas:

And if you remember when a director Moler come out with his 10 priorities,

Loiue Quijas:

when he became the director, I believe number eight, and they

Loiue Quijas:

weren't any particular number.

Loiue Quijas:

Rate was contact with state and local commu, develop that

Loiue Quijas:

communication information sharing with state and local law enforcement.

Loiue Quijas:

'cause in reality it was state and locals who had all the

Loiue Quijas:

information, they had all the intel.

Loiue Quijas:

They had all the resources or, the assets, if you will.

Loiue Quijas:

So it was just educating our, the bureau should say now took a turn from being more

Loiue Quijas:

reactive agency to a prevention focus.

Loiue Quijas:

'cause you gotta prevent the next terrorist attack.

Loiue Quijas:

Yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

what they were used to was showing up to the bank after the robbery or to the

Loiue Quijas:

community after the kid was kidnapped.

Loiue Quijas:

Now you got planes flying into buildings that you gotta prevent.

Loiue Quijas:

And that, and it was hard for them to change that mindset where state and

Loiue Quijas:

locals, that's what they focus on.

Loiue Quijas:

They focus on preventing bank robberies and kid being kidnapped

Loiue Quijas:

and all those kind of crazy things.

Craig Floyd:

And I think you have to, realize that, if that was

Craig Floyd:

their goal right after nine 11 to prevent future terrorist attacks.

Craig Floyd:

I think they've done a pretty good job of, accomplishing that goal.

Craig Floyd:

Yeah.

Craig Floyd:

obviously we've changed a lot in this country in terms of security

Craig Floyd:

measures and law enforcement, et cetera, and it seems to have worked.

Craig Floyd:

I'm interested though, you've been removed from the FBI for quite a while

Craig Floyd:

now, but the FBI lately, the last year or two has been under a lot of criticism.

Craig Floyd:

and in some cases they've been, charges have been made by Trump and others that,

Craig Floyd:

they were partisan, in the way they were practicing and, perhaps even weaponizing

Craig Floyd:

the FBI, to be involved in some sort of political witch hunts and such.

Craig Floyd:

what's your view from, you're, an outsider now, but you were there.

Craig Floyd:

do you feel the FBI's ever been political?

Craig Floyd:

how are they doing their job today in your, estimation?

Loiue Quijas:

Yeah, we, my, I can only speak to the time that I was

Loiue Quijas:

there and what I saw when I was with Director Moeller, who, we

Loiue Quijas:

would stay at a local field office.

Loiue Quijas:

If we were at like the National Sheriff's Association and there was a,

Loiue Quijas:

senator that was speaking on stage, we would stay at the local field office.

Loiue Quijas:

Until that senator did his thing or she did her, and then when

Loiue Quijas:

they left, then we would show up.

Loiue Quijas:

That's how, conscious the director was about even, being on the

Loiue Quijas:

stage with political people.

Loiue Quijas:

interesting.

Loiue Quijas:

and then on your thing, I remember a great story.

Loiue Quijas:

Here's a great story for you, clay.

Loiue Quijas:

I've never shared this with you.

Loiue Quijas:

You got invited us to come to the, candlelight vigil and, there's

Loiue Quijas:

obviously a lot of politicians on there.

Loiue Quijas:

And we were driving, in town and Dr. And the director called me and actually said,

Loiue Quijas:

Louis, should I really go to this thing?

Loiue Quijas:

And I said, director, you gotta go to it.

Loiue Quijas:

you've got the Ashcroft is gonna be there.

Loiue Quijas:

You had the DEA, he was that conscious about being on the stage with people.

Loiue Quijas:

And I said, that's not, it's not gonna be any of that.

Loiue Quijas:

It's gonna be, a very, very good thing for you.

Loiue Quijas:

And he ended up showing up and he came down.

Loiue Quijas:

I think everyone that, while I was with him while I was there, we showed up.

Loiue Quijas:

yeah, I, I never seen that part of it.

Loiue Quijas:

I really am.

Loiue Quijas:

I never was ever in a meeting or anything to where I thought.

Loiue Quijas:

this is a Republican Democrat thing.

Loiue Quijas:

I never saw any of that.

Loiue Quijas:

Now I think what you have, you had a lot of young people that got promoted

Loiue Quijas:

before they should get promoted.

Loiue Quijas:

You saw 'em on tv.

Loiue Quijas:

you saw 'em in the Senate hearing committees or, hearings.

Loiue Quijas:

without pointing out any of those people probably should have never

Loiue Quijas:

had the positions that they had.

Loiue Quijas:

And, I'll leave it at that.

Loiue Quijas:

Yeah.

Bill Erfurth:

I just, I just think back to the Obama administration and I think

Bill Erfurth:

that's where a lot of things started happening, where, the FBI was utilized

Bill Erfurth:

as a political tool and they started spying on the Trump, campaign and tapping

Bill Erfurth:

their phones and all that kind of stuff.

Bill Erfurth:

I think that became the beginning of a lot of that politicalization.

Bill Erfurth:

And it goes back into this whole thing that we were talking about

Bill Erfurth:

in Kansas City, St. Louis and Missouri is, you're trying to get.

Bill Erfurth:

That politics out of law enforcement.

Bill Erfurth:

And it's difficult because the FBI is federal, right?

Bill Erfurth:

So they're working under the DOJ and the FBI director and the director

Bill Erfurth:

of the DDOJ are appointed by the president of the United States.

Bill Erfurth:

And oftentimes those people are pol political pawn sometimes, or certainly

Bill Erfurth:

whatever the political affiliation is of the president oftentimes becomes

Bill Erfurth:

the political affiliation of the director of that, of his cabinet.

Bill Erfurth:

So it, seems like we're gonna bring it back into, St. Louis and Kansas

Bill Erfurth:

City again, because I, find it interesting that this is only going

Bill Erfurth:

on in one state in this country.

Bill Erfurth:

And why do you think that?

Bill Erfurth:

That hasn't become more popular or spread across the country.

Bill Erfurth:

I almost think everybody wants to have their own kingdom or their

Bill Erfurth:

own fiefdom where they can control local government and local police.

Bill Erfurth:

And in Missouri's case, that's very different.

Loiue Quijas:

Now.

Loiue Quijas:

and I don't think it's a, it's solution or it's, an option for everybody.

Loiue Quijas:

I don't think it's something that everybody should embrace.

Loiue Quijas:

I, I, you've got, like I said, you got big cities like Kansas City and St. Louis,

Loiue Quijas:

but you, look at Baltimore, you look at, Cleveland, you look at Seattle and you

Loiue Quijas:

get those major cities, and if the, focus isn't on public safety, keeping those

Loiue Quijas:

communities safe, Philadelphia, Chicago.

Loiue Quijas:

Let me, don't get me started on Chicago.

Loiue Quijas:

I sit here back.

Loiue Quijas:

I think what what's happened in Chicago over the last 20 years has

Loiue Quijas:

been probably the biggest civil rights violation in our history.

Loiue Quijas:

Where every weekend, virtually every day, but every weekend, let's say,

Loiue Quijas:

where people are gonna get shot, you know what they're gonna get shot with.

Loiue Quijas:

It's in a, three mile area and we're not doing a thing about it.

Bill Erfurth:

Yeah.

Bill Erfurth:

Yeah.

Bill Erfurth:

That's crazy.

Loiue Quijas:

And I sit in back and say, this is just crazy.

Loiue Quijas:

And you talk about intelligence driven policing, if I can tell

Loiue Quijas:

you between these hours on this state, it's gonna be a handgun.

Loiue Quijas:

I can tell you the victim, the race of the victim.

Loiue Quijas:

I can almost tell you the, race of the, sus of the suspect.

Loiue Quijas:

Yep.

Loiue Quijas:

And you're saying you can't do anything about it.

Loiue Quijas:

4th of July weekend, four, almost 50 shootings.

Loiue Quijas:

nine, nine deaths, I believe.

Loiue Quijas:

Something of just crazy.

Loiue Quijas:

the July 2nd.

Loiue Quijas:

I understand they killed four other people, and you're

Loiue Quijas:

saying that can't be prevented.

Loiue Quijas:

That should be the easiest crime to, solve in, in, in Chicago, but it's not.

Bill Erfurth:

Chicago has turned into a complete and total shit show.

Bill Erfurth:

and the, last two mayors that they've had have been absolute buffoons and they

Bill Erfurth:

definitely do not support their police.

Bill Erfurth:

And they've brought in police, superintendents there in Chicago that,

Bill Erfurth:

align with the mayor's politics and they're Yes sir, men, they go along with

Bill Erfurth:

that, and that's become a real problem.

Bill Erfurth:

And, I think that's what's, again, I want to go back to the Missouri thing.

Bill Erfurth:

I think that's why it's so much more interesting because, your cops aren't

Bill Erfurth:

gonna go out there and put their ass on the line and be proactive and get,

Bill Erfurth:

get down and dirty in those areas and take care of crime if they don't feel

Bill Erfurth:

like they've got, the administration's got their back and they're supported.

Bill Erfurth:

And when you've got these liberal politicians that are

Bill Erfurth:

bringing in these police chiefs that can be fired at on a whim.

Bill Erfurth:

if you're not going along with what they feel, if the police chief, if the police

Bill Erfurth:

superintendent in Chicago put together a task force and sent them down to

Bill Erfurth:

the southwest side of Chicago and just started taking care of business, the chief

Bill Erfurth:

would probably be, the superintendent.

Bill Erfurth:

He'd probably be fired by the mayor, right?

Bill Erfurth:

Yeah.

Bill Erfurth:

So it, it's crazy.

Bill Erfurth:

And that's why, I had asked again about how come that just hasn't

Bill Erfurth:

taken off around the country.

Loiue Quijas:

It's about power.

Loiue Quijas:

It's about power, it's about leverage.

Loiue Quijas:

It's, that's what it's really all about.

Loiue Quijas:

When you have the power to look what's going on in la Now, we, probably all know

Loiue Quijas:

Jimmy McDonald, great guy, I think solid the earth guy, and I felt bad for him when

Loiue Quijas:

I saw him standing on TV because let me tell you, Jimmy McDonald knows what to do.

Bill Erfurth:

Of course, he's a great, they know what to do.

Loiue Quijas:

He knows exactly what to do.

Bill Erfurth:

They just can't do it.

Bill Erfurth:

They just can't do it, right?

Loiue Quijas:

'Cause you've got Karen Bass, who's got one day of law

Loiue Quijas:

enforcement experience ever, and all of a sudden she's the expert on what

Loiue Quijas:

needs to be done to keep the city safe.

Loiue Quijas:

Now, I can guarantee you she's not dictating the same way to Jimmy or

Loiue Quijas:

to the guy who runs the electrical department saying, I don't want

Loiue Quijas:

you to do, whatever the lingo is.

Loiue Quijas:

No, she doesn't do that.

Loiue Quijas:

But for some reason, these people get in office and they think all of a

Loiue Quijas:

sudden they're experts in public safety.

Loiue Quijas:

When in fact you got a chief that's been there for 25 years, got 30 years of

Loiue Quijas:

experience or whatever it is, and they, no, you don't really know what you're.

Bill Erfurth:

They're just political pawns then, they're, turned into Yes sir.

Bill Erfurth:

Men, because they're more concerned about keeping their job than, doing the

Bill Erfurth:

right thing or supporting their, cops.

Bill Erfurth:

And that's very disheartening and frustrating.

Bill Erfurth:

And that's why you have the morale problems because they, the cops just

Bill Erfurth:

know they're not getting the backing.

Bill Erfurth:

And, we were at a cigar bar one time and Craig said to me, I don't understand

Bill Erfurth:

why you never became a police chief.

Bill Erfurth:

And I said, are you kidding me?

Bill Erfurth:

I said, can you see me listening to some mayor or city council

Bill Erfurth:

telling me how to do police work?

Bill Erfurth:

Just like what you just said, Louis, like Karen Bash, she's done five minutes

Bill Erfurth:

of, law enforcement in her life and she's basically dumber than a doorknob.

Bill Erfurth:

Anyway.

Bill Erfurth:

Yeah.

Bill Erfurth:

And then you gotta answer to that woman after you've done

Bill Erfurth:

a career in law enforcement.

Bill Erfurth:

And I used the analogy with Craig and I said, Craig, it's

Bill Erfurth:

like you getting on an airplane.

Bill Erfurth:

You've never flown an airplane in your life.

Bill Erfurth:

You don't know anything about airplanes, and you stick your head

Bill Erfurth:

in the cockpit and you want to tell the pilot how to fly the plane, and

Bill Erfurth:

you've got these mayors and council people and whatnot that want to tell.

Bill Erfurth:

Career law enforcement people, how to do the job.

Bill Erfurth:

and it's, crazy to me.

Loiue Quijas:

Yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

And, if you look at law enforcement, it's probably one of the most regulated, watch,

Loiue Quijas:

there's more federal, state, local rules about law enforcement, public safety.

Loiue Quijas:

I don't know, a profession that probably, maybe medical profession, maybe a doctor.

Loiue Quijas:

But you think about it, you're pretty much, you watch pretty

Loiue Quijas:

close every day in what you do.

Loiue Quijas:

And so this thing, you go out there, you, it's just crazy.

Loiue Quijas:

and I think, but I'm optimistic.

Loiue Quijas:

I really am.

Loiue Quijas:

I think I do see some light at the end of the tunnel.

Loiue Quijas:

I hear good police work going on.

Loiue Quijas:

I talk to cops all the time.

Loiue Quijas:

but I wanna go back to something you said, and, I don't think you know it

Loiue Quijas:

until you are a police chief, because I know personally for me, and when I talk

Loiue Quijas:

to, to, to cops or, and former chiefs, you get in there and the city manager.

Loiue Quijas:

rubs you the wrong way, or you think, Hey, this isn't gonna work.

Loiue Quijas:

I can just leave.

Loiue Quijas:

But you've developed relationships with your people, you feel responsible for

Loiue Quijas:

them yet, if I walk out the door, it's good for me, but I leave them behind.

Loiue Quijas:

And now they've gotta deal with, 'cause city manager's gonna

Loiue Quijas:

put some knucklehead in there.

Loiue Quijas:

and, a lot of times you hang around, not because you're a political pawn, but

Loiue Quijas:

because you care, about the citizens.

Loiue Quijas:

That's when you got into the business.

Loiue Quijas:

You care about these troops.

Loiue Quijas:

Now that you've come and you're their leader, and no matter how

Loiue Quijas:

long you've been there, you think, I just can't jump ship on them.

Loiue Quijas:

It'd be easy to do.

Loiue Quijas:

'cause most of these guys have already got jobs someplace else.

Loiue Quijas:

If they're halfway smart, they realize, Hey, I've started looking

Loiue Quijas:

for a job after my first year there.

Loiue Quijas:

So I, so when I hear people say, they, should, I sit back and say,

Loiue Quijas:

Hey, until you're in that seat and you think, boy, I can't leave these guys.

Loiue Quijas:

I don't wanna just leave 'em out there.

Loiue Quijas:

I don't live by themselves.

Loiue Quijas:

I'll stick it out.

Loiue Quijas:

Maybe this will change and it never does.

Loiue Quijas:

Yeah,

Dennis Collins:

that's a, it's a wonderful trait to, you have the, concern for your

Dennis Collins:

people and isn't that what a leader is?

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

That's it.

Dennis Collins:

So what, yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Other than elections, I guess what, I hear you saying, Louis, is you better

Dennis Collins:

be careful who you elect because that person at the local level who you

Dennis Collins:

elect, is gonna have a huge impact on how your community is policed.

Dennis Collins:

Yes.

Dennis Collins:

Is, that accurate?

Loiue Quijas:

Oh yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

I think you should.

Loiue Quijas:

I was telling, talking to a golf buddy of mine yesterday, I was,

Loiue Quijas:

and they were talking about the district attorney's election.

Loiue Quijas:

I says, somebody better ask, Hey, what's your, bail bond?

Loiue Quijas:

what are you gonna, what are your top priorities for prosecuting cases?

Loiue Quijas:

There's only so many resources.

Loiue Quijas:

Do you, you see what's going up in New York and LA and,

Loiue Quijas:

Chicago with Fox, out there.

Loiue Quijas:

and the lady that was in Gardner, I think her name was in St. Louis.

Loiue Quijas:

they weren't prosecuting anybody, right?

Loiue Quijas:

So I says, you need to know that.

Loiue Quijas:

Just like you should know who's on your school board.

Loiue Quijas:

Board.

Loiue Quijas:

Yes.

Loiue Quijas:

So who would've ever thought that you show up for a school board meeting?

Loiue Quijas:

Now you go there to make sure that hey, they're not

Loiue Quijas:

teaching your kids crazy stuff.

Loiue Quijas:

yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

we get very exercised about our national politics, obviously.

Dennis Collins:

And we should.

Dennis Collins:

It's all local.

Dennis Collins:

You know what, there's, somebody said this, somebody way smarter than me.

Dennis Collins:

All politics is local.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Somebody.

Craig Floyd:

Not Neil.

Craig Floyd:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

But isn't that the truth?

Dennis Collins:

What you're just saying here about the politicization of

Dennis Collins:

policing is all about elections.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

It's about elections and Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Very much Very careful who you choose to run your city, because they're

Dennis Collins:

gonna choose the city manager or who runs your city council or whatever.

Dennis Collins:

And sometimes we don't pay much attention to those elections.

Loiue Quijas:

Yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

Yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

Or you get a case like you see up in New York where they wanna get rid

Loiue Quijas:

of the police department completely.

Craig Floyd:

Louie, we keep saying.

Craig Floyd:

The, pendulum may be swinging in, a more positive direction when it comes

Craig Floyd:

to policing and criminal justice today than say, two or three years ago, in the

Craig Floyd:

heat of the defund, the police movement.

Craig Floyd:

But,

Craig Floyd:

our only one election away, to Dennis's point from returning,

Craig Floyd:

back to the days of Defund, defame, the police go easy on criminals.

Craig Floyd:

And I, think, here at Citizens Behind the Badge and you're a part of the team, as

Craig Floyd:

a member of our Law Enforcement Advisory Council, I think we have to continue

Craig Floyd:

to beat that drum because complacency, can be a very dangerous thing that

Craig Floyd:

when you think things are fine and, you don't need to worry about it anymore.

Craig Floyd:

All of a sudden some evil head, sticks up and all of a sudden you're

Craig Floyd:

going backwards, not forwards.

Craig Floyd:

how do you feel about today?

Craig Floyd:

do you, think we're in a better place than we were during the

Craig Floyd:

heat of the defund movement?

Craig Floyd:

Are we moving in the right direction?

Craig Floyd:

and are you concerned that we, still have big problems, to deal with?

Loiue Quijas:

Yeah, I, think we're as much at risk now as we were

Loiue Quijas:

during the George Floyd thing.

Loiue Quijas:

I think it's been, went underground.

Loiue Quijas:

I believe it's more organized.

Loiue Quijas:

I believe they're more educated.

Loiue Quijas:

I think we, we've never, I don't think we'll ever.

Loiue Quijas:

Stop hearing about defund the police anytime you have an incident.

Loiue Quijas:

I think we were talking before we went on about, the protests you see now and

Loiue Quijas:

the violence against, ice officers and mixed in with those ICE officers are

Loiue Quijas:

local cops, the sheriff's deputies.

Loiue Quijas:

and you get somebody that's gonna get shot and that'll eventually happen.

Loiue Quijas:

there's only, they just keep escalating the violence.

Loiue Quijas:

we were talking about, I believe it was the marijuana farm where,

Loiue Quijas:

they now actually have guys shooting at the ICE officers.

Loiue Quijas:

so the officers are gonna end up, having to defend themselves.

Loiue Quijas:

So when that happens, you'll have this whole defund the police piece again.

Loiue Quijas:

But you said something a second ago, Craig, that I, that concerns me just

Loiue Quijas:

as much as all this other stuff.

Loiue Quijas:

You talk about the pendulum, and I've been in this business long enough.

Loiue Quijas:

What ends up happening is that we let stuff get so far out of hand that

Loiue Quijas:

you'll have citizens come in and say.

Loiue Quijas:

Do whatever you have to do to make us safe.

Loiue Quijas:

And that pendulum doesn't go halfway.

Loiue Quijas:

You'll have agencies that'll do that and you'll have people

Loiue Quijas:

that will abuse their authority.

Loiue Quijas:

You'll have officers that will go out and do crazy stuff.

Loiue Quijas:

And then what we do is then we'll find ourselves all the way

Loiue Quijas:

back over here because you will have, officers will do anything

Loiue Quijas:

because the citizens just give up.

Loiue Quijas:

And that's where I think you gotta have that pendulum right in here.

Loiue Quijas:

So there's always that.

Loiue Quijas:

But when you get too far here, too far there, and I said, you

Loiue Quijas:

never wanna get to the point where the citizens say it's so bad.

Loiue Quijas:

Just come in and do anything.

Loiue Quijas:

Do whatever you have to do to make it right.

Loiue Quijas:

Because there will be police officers that'll do that and it

Loiue Quijas:

won't be good for our profession.

Loiue Quijas:

And I think we've worked so hard to try to get back to getting, gaining that trust.

Loiue Quijas:

'cause a lot of people did drink the Kool Aid about, how bad the police.

Loiue Quijas:

Our, it just, and I think I actually got written down on a

Loiue Quijas:

piece of paper in front of me.

Loiue Quijas:

Citizens Behind the Badge we're educators.

Loiue Quijas:

We have to be educated, we have to educate people about what law

Loiue Quijas:

enforcement is all about, public safety, but more importantly, what

Loiue Quijas:

citizens' roles are in that process.

Loiue Quijas:

It's just not the police, it's just not rolling up what are the responsibilities,

Loiue Quijas:

what's the involvement, what's the role of our citizens in the policing,

Loiue Quijas:

criminal justice, public safety, process.

Loiue Quijas:

And I think that what we can do, these podcasts are great.

Loiue Quijas:

I think we get 'em out and just not cop stories.

Loiue Quijas:

It's, Hey, gotta show up to the city council meetings.

Loiue Quijas:

You gotta go to your, every city co or every city that I know of has some kind

Loiue Quijas:

of public safety committee made up of two or three people from the city council.

Loiue Quijas:

Have you ever been to that meeting?

Loiue Quijas:

Let 'em know that public safety is a concern of yours.

Loiue Quijas:

And I, I think that, I don't think we're gonna get out, we're out of the woods yet.

Loiue Quijas:

but I do think that I see some light at the end of the tunnel.

Loiue Quijas:

I see officers out there that are doing a better job.

Loiue Quijas:

you, they're more active.

Loiue Quijas:

I think you see more support for law enforcement.

Loiue Quijas:

'cause people have finally come to the realization that it's very small

Loiue Quijas:

group of people that are bound, beating that drum about getting rid

Loiue Quijas:

of the police, defunding the police.

Loiue Quijas:

And since we have great organizations like Citizens Behind the Badge Court

Loiue Quijas:

and said, Hey, wait a second there, there's two sides of this story.

Loiue Quijas:

I've done a, an informal survey on my own over the last several years.

Loiue Quijas:

And I think I was telling you, I, I'll be at a cocktail party or a

Loiue Quijas:

picnic and I'll just ask somebody.

Loiue Quijas:

I says, I got a question.

Loiue Quijas:

Have you personally ever been in contact with a police officer

Loiue Quijas:

when you needed police service?

Loiue Quijas:

You'd be surprised how many people have never called the police.

Craig Floyd:

Never.

Loiue Quijas:

Just never.

Loiue Quijas:

No.

Loiue Quijas:

But I, know somebody that had my next door neighbor had their kid's bike was stolen.

Loiue Quijas:

have you, have you ever seen a police officer this one?

Loiue Quijas:

I always too.

Loiue Quijas:

Have you ever seen a police officer with his hands on his gun?

Loiue Quijas:

Oh no.

Loiue Quijas:

I've never seen, I said, here's the big one.

Loiue Quijas:

Have you ever seen a police officer point his gun at anybody?

Loiue Quijas:

And to this day, probably, if I've asked that question a thousand times, maybe

Loiue Quijas:

two people have said yes to any of those.

Loiue Quijas:

and you think, then where all these dead people that we're killing, we gotta,

Loiue Quijas:

they gotta be laying around someplace.

Bill Erfurth:

Yeah.

Bill Erfurth:

Isn't that interesting though?

Bill Erfurth:

Isn't that interesting, Louis?

Bill Erfurth:

Because we were just talking about that on our last podcast and about the

Bill Erfurth:

statistics, and Craig was saying that, some 60 some odd million contacts.

Bill Erfurth:

Per year with law enforcement and how infrequent the, the use of

Bill Erfurth:

forces are the negative contacts.

Craig Floyd:

Less than 2%.

Craig Floyd:

Yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

Yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

Think about it.

Loiue Quijas:

So when you have those conversations, 'cause people ask me about behind the

Loiue Quijas:

badge and what are, what am I doing now?

Loiue Quijas:

I'm always proud to say that I'm involved with this group.

Loiue Quijas:

I just ask him those simple s When was the last time you saw

Loiue Quijas:

a police officer pull his gun?

Dennis Collins:

Yeah,

Loiue Quijas:

probably.

Loiue Quijas:

No.

Loiue Quijas:

anybody that's ever had their gun pointed and they'll go on and on

Loiue Quijas:

and they, it's just not there.

Dennis Collins:

Even ask a police officer, when is the last time you pulled your gun?

Dennis Collins:

I, happen to be the father of a police officer and, she's been

Dennis Collins:

on for ru 16, 17 years, I think maybe once, twice in 17 years.

Dennis Collins:

and she works some pretty high risk things.

Dennis Collins:

But I wanted to interject here at this point.

Dennis Collins:

take a, quick pause and remind everybody that this podcast

Dennis Collins:

is Heroes Behind the Badge.

Dennis Collins:

You're, listening to one of the true heroes, and that is a gentleman who

Dennis Collins:

served, local, state, and federal.

Dennis Collins:

He's got a better handle on policing than probably almost anyone.

Dennis Collins:

And his name is Louis Kios and he is here today talking

Dennis Collins:

about his life and his career.

Dennis Collins:

And this podcast is brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah, Citizens Behind the Badge.org.

Dennis Collins:

Dot org, okay.

Dennis Collins:

That's where you can go to find out all about Louis's on there.

Dennis Collins:

His picture's on there.

Dennis Collins:

Bill Fr is on there.

Dennis Collins:

he's one of our founding directors.

Dennis Collins:

I'm a founding director.

Dennis Collins:

Craig Floyd is the chairman, of, and CEO and president and head Puba.

Dennis Collins:

He is the man who created this idea.

Craig Floyd:

Much responsibility.

Craig Floyd:

Yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

Many other things off camera.

Loiue Quijas:

we've all mentioned in this podcast.

Dennis Collins:

Todd, really,

Bill Erfurth:

what about

Dennis Collins:

Craig?

Bill Erfurth:

So I, wanna ask Louis.

Bill Erfurth:

So Louis, all these years that you were in law enforcement and as Dennis had

Bill Erfurth:

just stated, state, local, state, and federal, what's the craziest story?

Loiue Quijas:

Wow, that's a great question.

Loiue Quijas:

wow.

Loiue Quijas:

That's a good one.

Loiue Quijas:

Bill.

Loiue Quijas:

I've never been asked that.

Craig Floyd:

Did you ever pull your gun?

Loiue Quijas:

yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

You know what?

Loiue Quijas:

I probably, when you said that.

Loiue Quijas:

Through my mind back when I was a cop, if you got like a bank call, you had to have

Loiue Quijas:

your shotgun out or you had your gun out.

Loiue Quijas:

But I can't remember ever pointing my gun at somebody.

Loiue Quijas:

IJI just don't remember.

Loiue Quijas:

I'm a pretty good, YY yap and try to talk people outta stuff because

Loiue Quijas:

I obviously, I did want to get hurt myself, but didn't wanna hurt people.

Loiue Quijas:

But, there's some guys that get in a situation that it, that, that

Loiue Quijas:

calls for that, kind of force.

Loiue Quijas:

But getting back to your question, you know what I, probably the.

Loiue Quijas:

The day I got the call from director, probably was wanna talk about I know I do.

Loiue Quijas:

I tell you, let me tell you one of the highlights real quick.

Loiue Quijas:

I got the director and I went to Kansas City, for a briefing.

Loiue Quijas:

And,

Loiue Quijas:

the, Kelly, the, I, Clarence Kelly Bill, many of you may, many of you may

Loiue Quijas:

not know that after Hoover passed away, Clarence Kelly became the FBI director.

Loiue Quijas:

He happened to be my chief.

Loiue Quijas:

He was the chief in Kansas City and Nixon selected him 'cause

Loiue Quijas:

he had been a former FBI agent.

Loiue Quijas:

Looked just like Clark Kent, the guy just when I remember seeing, he swore me in and

Loiue Quijas:

but they named the, building after him, the, Kansas City office.

Loiue Quijas:

And the director and I are sitting in the, the SAC, the

Loiue Quijas:

special agent in charge office.

Loiue Quijas:

And we're sitting there and I'm looking out the window and there's a park

Loiue Quijas:

called Monkey Park, and it's in the Hispanic community there in Kansas City.

Loiue Quijas:

And I played there when I was a kid.

Loiue Quijas:

My uncle and I would walk up the street and play in that dirt parking lot.

Loiue Quijas:

And now I'm sitting in this office with the director being briefed by

Loiue Quijas:

the SAC on some shit, crazy stuff.

Loiue Quijas:

And I'm looking out there and say, is this a great country?

Loiue Quijas:

A lot, is this a great country that a kid from Kansas City that played in that

Loiue Quijas:

dust bowl right there, they, that we call the baseball field that one day we would

Loiue Quijas:

be sitting here with the FBI director.

Loiue Quijas:

And I, think that's where sometimes I, I get a little emotional because I think

Loiue Quijas:

this is the greatest country in the world.

Loiue Quijas:

There should not be the issues that we have crime wise.

Loiue Quijas:

Everybody should be safe, everybody should be fed.

Loiue Quijas:

I can't, I hate to see hungry people.

Loiue Quijas:

and who are the, who makes sure that we all do the right thing.

Loiue Quijas:

It's the cops.

Loiue Quijas:

It's the cops, it's the police officers that get into this profession.

Loiue Quijas:

I, used to teach an executive leadership course, and I used

Loiue Quijas:

to always say, you know what?

Loiue Quijas:

Don't forget the why.

Loiue Quijas:

Why did you become a cop?

Loiue Quijas:

why did you become, remember when you, because every, cop, all you guys that

Loiue Quijas:

were in law enforcement, somewhere along the way, somebody asked you

Loiue Quijas:

during the interview process, why do you wanna be a police officer?

Loiue Quijas:

And we said, I want to take care of people.

Loiue Quijas:

I want to, get back to the community.

Loiue Quijas:

And then why is it six months later you're beating people with a belly stick?

Loiue Quijas:

Or you're, you're stealing shit.

Loiue Quijas:

Then you know, you blah, blah.

Loiue Quijas:

You forget the why, and that's where leadership comes in.

Loiue Quijas:

You gotta remember what the, why was.

Loiue Quijas:

I, I graduated.

Loiue Quijas:

I was working the midnight shift, let me tell you, at

Loiue Quijas:

three o'clock in the afternoon.

Loiue Quijas:

My first day I was already in my uniform.

Loiue Quijas:

I couldn't wait to get to the police station.

Loiue Quijas:

Couldn't it be great if you felt that way every day, is years later.

Bill Erfurth:

Isn't that the, isn't that the truth, Louis?

Bill Erfurth:

Because when we all first started and I remembered, man, this is

Loiue Quijas:

You gotta asked that question, didn't you?

Bill Erfurth:

the thing of it is, you first started the job and you were so

Bill Erfurth:

gung-ho and you were so into it, right?

Bill Erfurth:

And you thought, wow, this is like having front row seats to

Bill Erfurth:

the biggest freak show in America.

Bill Erfurth:

You would see the craziest shit that nobody would ever see, right?

Bill Erfurth:

And I remember as a young cop, I was like, man, I'd almost do this job for free.

Bill Erfurth:

Yeah.

Bill Erfurth:

This is like totally unbelievable the things that you would see.

Bill Erfurth:

And I remember for a number of years.

Bill Erfurth:

I had more fun when I was at work than on my days off.

Bill Erfurth:

And I didn't even, I didn't even wanna have my days off.

Bill Erfurth:

I wanted to, work every day.

Bill Erfurth:

And, I remember some of the old timers back then too.

Bill Erfurth:

and, they were all so cynical and they had just seen so much over

Bill Erfurth:

their careers that they had just become very cynical and ca calloused.

Bill Erfurth:

And I thought to myself, you know what?

Bill Erfurth:

That's never gonna be me.

Bill Erfurth:

And then all of a sudden, one day that was me.

Bill Erfurth:

Yeah.

Bill Erfurth:

And, the job ate you up a little bit.

Bill Erfurth:

I want to do one quick side note over to Dennis here.

Bill Erfurth:

I'm gonna ask Dennis a question.

Bill Erfurth:

'cause we were bantering this about how many times people have pulled their guns.

Bill Erfurth:

Dennis, how many times were you with me riding along and you saw me pull my gun?

Dennis Collins:

let's see.

Dennis Collins:

Per shift, I'd say an average of 8, 8, 8 to 10

Craig Floyd:

per shift.

Loiue Quijas:

Can, I say going back to that, I think we, and,

Loiue Quijas:

Dennis, you were talking a little bit earlier about leadership.

Loiue Quijas:

Yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

And I think that's what's so important.

Loiue Quijas:

I, see great leaders out here.

Loiue Quijas:

We do have great leaders in law enforcement.

Loiue Quijas:

I'm a little disappointed that we haven't heard more from our leadership.

Loiue Quijas:

we have a lot of guys out, a lot of associations.

Loiue Quijas:

I've not heard anything from these groups when they're talking about defund the

Loiue Quijas:

police and officers getting hurt and, and I'm thinking, where are these leaders?

Loiue Quijas:

But going back.

Loiue Quijas:

To what we were talking about.

Loiue Quijas:

I think the responsibility is as a great leader to, to create an environment where

Loiue Quijas:

every day when that cop, if it's his first day or if it's his, the day, I remember

Loiue Quijas:

the day I retired, I put my uniform on and I was almost as excited that day as

Loiue Quijas:

I was, the day I started going to my, the midnight shift at Central patrol

Loiue Quijas:

division at Admiral, on Admiral Street.

Loiue Quijas:

so nobody does it better than us.

Loiue Quijas:

I, and I'm gonna say this and I want to throw some credit to Craig as one

Loiue Quijas:

of the few times I get a chance to do it on this scale, all you gotta do

Loiue Quijas:

is just go to the national memorial.

Loiue Quijas:

You go to the candlelight vigil.

Loiue Quijas:

I remember Craig, gave me a, an honor that I, never forgot.

Loiue Quijas:

He let me reach, I think it was four or five names, Craig.

Loiue Quijas:

I remember studying those names and pronouncing those names.

Loiue Quijas:

'cause I thought if I get up there and that family, is it Martinez

Loiue Quijas:

or Martinis or whatever, I get up there and I say that name.

Loiue Quijas:

I want to just say it is clear and it is loud.

Loiue Quijas:

So I drive home the fact that we never forget.

Loiue Quijas:

and when people talk about, Louis, why would we you stick around

Loiue Quijas:

so long in this profession you could've made, 'cause I did.

Loiue Quijas:

I was fortunate.

Loiue Quijas:

I went out to private sector and I made some good money.

Loiue Quijas:

there's nothing wrong with making money, lemme tell you that.

Loiue Quijas:

I, tell myself I'd go out and do it again.

Loiue Quijas:

I know that sounds crazy for a 74-year-old guy, but I would go out and do it again.

Loiue Quijas:

And if the profession, if you could do something that makes you a 74-year-old

Loiue Quijas:

guy, say shit, if somebody called me today and say, Hey Lily, could

Loiue Quijas:

you go down and just do one shift?

Loiue Quijas:

I think.

Loiue Quijas:

Come on.

Loiue Quijas:

I think I could do it.

Dennis Collins:

Let's do it.

Dennis Collins:

I'm gonna, I'll talk Sheriff Mina here in Orange County.

Loiue Quijas:

But I think every police officer should

Loiue Quijas:

go to the National Memorial...

Dennis Collins:

I totally,

Loiue Quijas:

...and just stand there and look at those names thinking, Hey,

Loiue Quijas:

'cause you got a tendency to think that all this craft started when you

Loiue Quijas:

showed up at the police headquarters, and, but when I leave, they're

Loiue Quijas:

gonna make a toenail shop out of it.

Loiue Quijas:

That's not how it works.

Loiue Quijas:

You have a new generation that comes in, when you create the memorial, you

Loiue Quijas:

have, you go there, I don't know how many professions, you could go to and

Loiue Quijas:

look there and say, wow, I'm part of this and what's really, and it was all

Loiue Quijas:

worth the effort, the blood, sweat, and tears, and this is why I did it.

Loiue Quijas:

I tell you, that's pretty emotional.

Dennis Collins:

And what's really important, Louie, is

Dennis Collins:

to go during police week.

Dennis Collins:

Oh my god.

Dennis Collins:

I remember my first time, biller for, took me there and I met Craig at that point.

Dennis Collins:

And obviously the rest is history, but, I could not believe what I saw.

Dennis Collins:

I don't know.

Dennis Collins:

Was it, what is it, 40, 50,000 cops from all over the world actually.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah, Gather there with the families to honor the fallen officers.

Dennis Collins:

That is, it's, if you've never seen it and every police o I've taken

Dennis Collins:

my daughter numerous times, every police officer needs to do that.

Dennis Collins:

Yeah.

Dennis Collins:

Because that will reinforce the reason, the why you became a cop.

Loiue Quijas:

Yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

and I think it reinforces that we never forget.

Loiue Quijas:

Yes.

Loiue Quijas:

No, it's easy to say that.

Loiue Quijas:

It's easy to Oh, yeah.

Loiue Quijas:

we never forget.

Loiue Quijas:

We don't forget.

Loiue Quijas:

I could take you a place where it shows you we don't forget.

Dennis Collins:

Never.

Loiue Quijas:

We always said too, and, thanks to Craig in, his

Loiue Quijas:

efforts, said absolutely we're there.

Craig Floyd:

But, bill, has always said that helped him in his career

Craig Floyd:

when he came to police week, and he was reminded of why he became a cop and,

Craig Floyd:

really met all the good people there.

Craig Floyd:

But, I always say to people that, to your point, that every officer should come

Craig Floyd:

to National Police Week at least once.

Craig Floyd:

and realize when you look at that memorial, you're

Craig Floyd:

following in the footsteps

Loiue Quijas:

very much so of some

Craig Floyd:

of the greatest people that have ever walked the face of this earth.

Craig Floyd:

Yeah.

Craig Floyd:

And then now, because the National Law Enforcement Museum was built

Craig Floyd:

in 2018, you can look at the names.

Craig Floyd:

Remember the sacrifice, honor them, but then go across the street and

Craig Floyd:

see the full story, the complete story of American law enforcement.

Craig Floyd:

Yeah.

Craig Floyd:

And realize that this profession is so important to this nation.

Craig Floyd:

Yeah.

Craig Floyd:

It's the reason why we have the freedoms that we do and, can live

Craig Floyd:

the kind of, wonderful lives that all of us have been blessed with.

Craig Floyd:

Yeah.

Craig Floyd:

And if not for law enforcement, that wouldn't be possible.

Craig Floyd:

So hopefully every officer will come.

Craig Floyd:

But I also want individual private citizens to come because they need

Craig Floyd:

to be reminded of the service and sacrifice that law enforcement gives,

Craig Floyd:

to this country each and every day.

Craig Floyd:

it's not easy, as you pointed out.

Craig Floyd:

and today, over the last five years, it's been really difficult with the

Craig Floyd:

defunding defame, the police movement.

Craig Floyd:

We do seem to be moving in a better direction now.

Craig Floyd:

I hope it lasts.

Craig Floyd:

I like your point about.

Craig Floyd:

Keep the pendulum in the middle.

Craig Floyd:

Don't swing left, don't swing right.

Craig Floyd:

Keep it right.

Craig Floyd:

Analogy in the middle, everything will go a lot easier.

Craig Floyd:

Yeah.

Craig Floyd:

And Louis, I'm so proud, and thankful that you've been a part of this podcast

Craig Floyd:

today, but more importantly that you are such an important part of the law

Craig Floyd:

enforcement profession for 36 years.

Craig Floyd:

Thank you my friend.

Craig Floyd:

it's an honor.

Loiue Quijas:

Alright.

Loiue Quijas:

Absolutely.

Loiue Quijas:

Thank all my honor, and to be, on this podcast.

Loiue Quijas:

I, think I was telling, the gentleman before you were taking a break earlier.

Loiue Quijas:

I've done a lot of stuff.

Loiue Quijas:

This made me nervous today.

Loiue Quijas:

I don't know why.

Dennis Collins:

Oh, come on.

Dennis Collins:

After all you've been through.

Dennis Collins:

The throne of power up there in DC This is happen.

Loiue Quijas:

I had my wife load up my grandkids, I said,

Loiue Quijas:

I don't want any distraction.

Loiue Quijas:

I got more lights behind you.

Loiue Quijas:

If you saw what's behind this screen here, you'd think, Larry, no, I

Loiue Quijas:

really appreciate you giving me.

Dennis Collins:

Thank you, Louis, your story.

Dennis Collins:

we pride ourselves in getting people like you to come here and tell their stories,

Dennis Collins:

because your story is an inspiration.

Dennis Collins:

Your story should be an inspira, and your words are inspirational.

Dennis Collins:

Your, optimism.

Dennis Collins:

Your optimism.

Dennis Collins:

not everybody has your optimism and.

Loiue Quijas:

yeah, I still think it's the greatest country in the world,

Loiue Quijas:

the greatest profession in the world.

Loiue Quijas:

And when you have an opportunity to interact and be a part of a, of

Loiue Quijas:

organization like citizens behind the band and, interact with great

Loiue Quijas:

professional people like yourself, today, I know why I stay, connected.

Loiue Quijas:

It'd be easy for me to retire and, just do crazy stuff.

Loiue Quijas:

But thanks to Craig and, you guys, I still able to contribute and that made

Loiue Quijas:

me, that makes me feel very, good.

Loiue Quijas:

So thank you very much for having me today.

Dennis Collins:

We're glad you're connected.

Dennis Collins:

We are glad to have you as a guest.

Dennis Collins:

That'll conclude this episode of Heroes Behind the Badge.

Dennis Collins:

Please, go to our website at Citizens Behind the Badge,

Dennis Collins:

and Citizens BehindBadge.org.

Dennis Collins:

I forgot the ORG.

Dennis Collins:

The ORG is important.

Dennis Collins:

You can find out all about Citizens Behind the Badge.

Dennis Collins:

You can find out how to get involved in support of the men and women of

Dennis Collins:

law enforcement, and you can find out how to hear the next episode of

Dennis Collins:

The Heroes Behind the Badge podcast.

Dennis Collins:

We hope you'll select,

Dennis Collins:

subscribe, all those cool things.

Dennis Collins:

You gotta hit the buttons, and that tells us and tells the algorithm

Dennis Collins:

that you like what you heard.

Dennis Collins:

If you like what Louis had to say today, hit subscribe.

Dennis Collins:

Hit light.

Dennis Collins:

Okay, we'll see you next time.

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About the Podcast

Heroes Behind the Badge
We tell REAL stories about REAL cops.  And we expose the fake news about police and give you the REAL truth.
From the front lines to the final call, Heroes Behind the Badge brings you the untold stories of America's law enforcement community. Led by Craig Floyd, who spent 34 years working alongside police officers across the nation, alongside veteran facilitator Dennis Collins and law enforcement expert Bill Erfurth, this podcast cuts through misconceptions to reveal the true nature of modern policing.

Our dynamic trio brings unique perspectives to each episode: Craig shares deep insights from his decades of experience and relationships within law enforcement, Dennis guides conversations with meticulous research and natural flow, and Bill adds engaging commentary that makes complex law enforcement topics accessible to all listeners.

Each episode features in-depth conversations with law enforcement professionals, sharing their firsthand experiences, challenges, and triumphs. Drawing from extensive research and real-world experience, we explore the realities faced by the over 800,000 officers who serve and protect our communities every day.

From dramatic accounts of crisis response to quiet moments of everyday heroism, our show illuminates the human stories behind the badge. We dive deep into the statistics, policies, and practices that shape modern law enforcement, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of what it truly means to serve in law enforcement today.

Whether you're a law enforcement professional, a concerned citizen, or someone seeking to understand the complexities of modern policing, Heroes Behind the Badge provides the context, insights, and authentic perspectives you won't find anywhere else. Join us weekly as we honor those who dedicate their lives to keeping our communities safe, one story at a time.

Presented by Citizens Behind the Badge, a nonprofit organization dedicated to supporting and advocating for law enforcement professionals across the United States. Join over 126,000 Americans who have already signed our Declaration of Support for law enforcement at behindbadge.org.